Marshall, Coleman. and Hawkins connections

I was chatting with a lady who has a Hawkins line found in Forsythe County, Ga and a county in Tennessee.  This Hawkins line has names that are so much like the Hawkins names found in my family line that it jumped out at me.  And then she had a Cullen Hawkins.....hmmmm..... I know that this is coincidence.....But it has me wanting to chat with Chip Jones about where in TN Coleman Marshall moved and if there were Hawkins' who moved with this family.  So I'll start with what I already know about the Marshall/Coleman/Hawkins connections in Orange County, Virginia in the early to mid 1800s.

My 2-gr-grandfather, T.R. Hawkins, lived in Orange County, Virginia all of his life according to his obit.  There is no doubt about the fact that T.R. had two best buddies:  his uncle, Benjamin Hawkins and Coleman Marshall.  Benjamin and Coleman were brother-in-laws.  Benjamin was married to Mary/Polly Bickers and Coleman was married to Mary/Polly's sister, Joanna Bickers. When Benjamin was involved in founding the Zion Baptist Church in orange County, both Coleman and T.R. were present.  Every time any one of these men went to the courthouse, the other two men went along as a witness.  When Benjamin died in 1851

People named in Benjamin’s will:

wife, Mary

nephew Thomas R. Hawkins

niece Mary Hawkins

Sarah F. Coleman

Josanna Marshall

Matilda Marshall

Coleman Marshall

John Todd

Charles Scott

William Cole (decd)

friend William C. Scott 

Autosomal DNA matches for me

I was chatting with a buddy of mine who has a participant in Hawkins yDNA group #1 which is my group (my dad tested for me).  She was asking me about the FF test.  She wanted to know if I had any Hawkins matches on my FF .....I took a look......and lo and behold, I had one match with a lady who has maiden name Hawkins.  As we chatted, I learned that her Hawkins line connects with yDNA family group #3 while mine connects with family group #1.  These groups are clearly different from one another.  It is not on our Hawkins lines that we match.

Then we looked at our Moore lines.  Again it is probably NOT the Moore line that is our connection.  

This lady does not match my mother's FF test, thus it is likely that we connect somewhere in my father's ancestry.  So here is quick run down on my ancestry that is on my dad's side for Lois and Elaine to scan:


My Hawkins line probably lived in the Northern Neck as early as late 1600's.....then moved up the Rappahannock River to the Culpeper/Orange County area of Virginia.  When most of these Hawkins lines moved on to Kentucky after the Revolutionary War, my own line remained in Orange and Louisa Counties until the late 1800s when they moved to Huntington, WV (where I live now) for railroad jobs.  I am fourth generation Hawkins in Huntington and have lived here all of my life. Other surnames that were associated with this Hawkins line are:  Pinkard, Anderson, Carter, Farrar, Scott, Lacey, Johnston, Burnley

My great-grandmother on my Hawkins side was a Beuhring.  This family had been Burig (with an umlaut over the u) in Germany.  FGL Beuhring moved from Germany to Baltimore MD before the War of 1812 where he married Frances Eleanor Dannenburg whose ancestors carried surnames of Konig from Hamburg Germany and Dannenburg from St. Petersburg Russia.  There is the possibility that there were surnames Schultze and Mayer in earlier generations.  

Other ancestors of my gr-grandmother, Beuhring were:   Mueller/Miller (descendants of Jacob Mueller who was the founder of what is now Woodstock, Virginia in the Shenandoah Valley), Chapman, Holderby (from the area around the York River in Virginia), Pendleton from the same area, possibly Macon, Pollard, Pannell, Hurt, Douglas, Bell, Camden from very early Virginia....Clendenin, Wiseman, Handley who likely were Scotch-Irish. 

On my father's mother's side are the surnames:  McGregor, McKinsey, Hare, Slater, Chapman/Redmon, Fresch, Elliott, Moore, Lackey/Leakey, Maynard, Jenkins, Cureton, 

Hornberger

Oh, my gosh!  Charlotte Erickson just sent me a photo that "makes my entire year"!

Charlotte believes this to be Fred Hornberger and Margaret (Maggie) Schmidt on their wedding day.  Charlotte says that the back says:  "Mother & Father on their wedding day"

I never expected to be lucky enough to see a photo of Fred Hornberger young and absolutely did not expect to be lucky enough to see a photo of Maggie!  This couple is my gr-grandparents.  They were the parents of my grandmother Sammons who lived with us for most of my life.  

William Webb in Barren County, Ky in 1810

I spent some time today looking at William Webb found in Barren County, Ky in 1810.  The below information is from Ancestry Census records.

I can not find this man in 1820 census.  Does anyone know anything about him?  He is not the William Webb found in Warren County in 1820 as that man is younger.  

In 1820 there is a Richard Webb and a Theophilis Webb  but no female who would seem to be a widow.  

This man is not found in Illinois in the census for this year either.  

Winnie has explained that some of her Webb family that connects with the group having names such as Merry and Martin who came to the Warren County area from Halifax/Henry area of Virginia lived in the area that is now Mammoth Cave National Park.  Look at the map below.  One could live in Barren County and be a close neighbor to someone living on land in that is now in Mammoth Cave National Park.  

Was there a member of the Merry/Martin Webb family group who moved to Warren County area who would have been born in the generation born between 1760 and 1770?  A birth date between these dates would have made this William Webb between 40 and 50 for the census of 1810.  Before I spend any more time on this, I will ask our group if anyone knows this man. 

Couldn't quite quit....found a site with land grants for Barren County.  

Webb

Wm

90

6

11-17-1804

None

It looks as if Wm Webb had land grant for 90 acres.  Survey was 17 Nov 1804.  There is no description of location of the land grant.  And it is in book 6  of Barren County of land grants in Barren County.

  

Webb

Here is what I DO know about my own Webb family line.  I first find this family in Illinois when Nancy Webb married Bird/Ichabod Hensley 14 Jan 1829 in Clay County, Illinois.   The only other clues that I have are that Bird reports that Nancy was born in Kentucky and that her parents were William and Nancy Webb on Nancy's death certificate which is found in Cabell County, WV.
One more piece of information came from Ruth Sammons Nassar's book:

Lucinda Hensley Sammons told her granddaughter that her Webb family had had a family reunion in Montgomery County, Ky--close to Bowling Green.

(Lucinda Hensley Sammons was the daughter of Bird and Nancy Webb Hensley)

Anyone who knows Kentucky can look at the statement reported to have been made by Lucinda Hensley and know that Bowling Green is no where near Montomery County, KY.  I first spent a good deal of time looking in the area around Montgomery County, KY.  I found a few pieces of information that I posted at

http://marshamoses.blogspot.com/2014/07/webb.html

However I am not concentrating on the Webb families found in the area near Bowling Green, KY rather than the Webb families in Eastern KY.  Here is information that I sent to the Webb mail list
20 July 2002:

According to Ancestry's information, in 1820 there are 104 William Webbs counted in the US census.  Because my William has a daughter, Nancy who is said to have been born in KY in 1811 and I find my William Webb in Clay County, Illinois in 1830, I narrow my interest down to the 1 in Madison County, Illinois and the four in Kentucky:

1 in Clark
1 in Floyd
1 in Franklin
1 in Warren

I know nothing about the William Webb who was already in Illinois.  But the man is young and has a young wife and has only one son.  No daughters....Nancy should be 9.  He is almost certainly not my man.

I feel sure that the William in Floyd County is the well documented William Webb (1780-1859) who married Nancy Green and descended from John and Mary Boone Webb through their son George and George's son John.  This couple lived and died in Floyd County, KY.  He is also not my man.

I have seen on websites that a William Webb who also descended from John and Mary Boone Webb through their son James who died in Letcher County, Ky.  This William Webb is said to have been married to Unknown Davenport.  The information that usually seems to come with this man is that he settled for a while in Franklin County and then moved west.  So he is a possibility for the William Webb in Franklin County.  This William Webb has a daughter who is 10-16...Nancy could have been 10 by the time that the enumerator came by.  So this man is a possibility for my 4-hr-grandfather.

The William Webb in Clark County seems to be too old and too affluent for my man.  He does have 4 young daughters under the age of 10--so my Nancy who would have been 9 fits....but he has slaves and 29 people engaged in agriculture.....not a likely candidate for a man who moves to Clay County, Illinois in 1830 and has no slaves.

The William Webb in Warren County is enumerated 7 Aug, 1820.  He has seven children in his household.  He and his wife are both between 26 and 44.  The children are 3 males under 10, 2 females under 10, 2 females 10-15.  This census is not in alphabetical order.  There are no Webbs in close proximity to William.  In looking at a later census, I find my 4-gr-grandfather to be 60-70 in the 1830 census of Clay County.  A man who was 44 in 1820 would not yet be 60 in 1830.  This is not likely to be my man.

However, there is a man with name William Webb in Barren County, Ky in the 1810 Census who is the right age for my 4-gr-grandfather.  Where is he in 1820?

Migration from Montgomery County, Virginia to Warren County, Kentucky

A message came across the Virginia Montgomery County message board this summer that inferred connections between families found in Montgomery County, Virginia in 1796 and families then found in Warren County, Kentucky.  I am going to copy the entire query because there are several thoughts in the below that I want to look at eventually.  My Ichabod/Bird Hensley is found in Clay County, Illinois in 1829 in a marriage record.  The bride in this record is Nancy Webb.  I suspect (but have not done the proof process) that Nancy's family had lived in Warren County, Kentucky before their move to Illinois.  And I know from many years of research that there were Webbs in Montgomery County, Virginia.  So I am interested in specifically looking at the families who moved together to Warren County, Kentucky from Montgomery County, Virginia

Here is the Query from the message board:

Jacob Smith next to William Stapleton put his land in the hands of Attorney Hugh Crockett in 1795 and moved to Warren County KY.  This land was later sold to Jesse Hall through Attorney Hugh Crocket.  This Jacob Smith had a wife named Elizabeth this is per the deed.  This Jacob was one of the two Jacobs on the south fork of the roanoke. This Jacob is the one that was next to John Picklesimer and William Stapleton.

Jacob SMITH's land was next to the Widow SHILLING, WEBB and LEWIS

This Jacob Smith disappears from the Montgomery County tax list in 1796.  He is obviously the Jacob surveying land in July 1796 in what was to become Warren County.

This Jacob Smith died in 1810 in Warren County KY his wife Elizabeth died in 1814  Her will listed children...  one in particular was Mary Smith that married Mark Lykens.    Mark Lykens too went to Warren County KY.  And the court record for his marriage to Mary does say Mary's dad is Jacob.

The sons listed in Elizabeths will were Jacob, David, John, Rowland

In July 2014, I am spending some time with my files and piles that are filed in the Webb cubby in my office.  It is NOT looking as if this migration from Montgomery County to Warren County, Ky is going to be fruitful for my own Webb line.  I found a copy of an e-mail that came across the Webb mail list 7Oct 2002 from Mike Webb in Florida.  

He offers information about the Webb family with names of William and John found in Montgomery County, Virginia during the Revolutionary War.  Julius Webb has daughters Kezekiah, Nancy and Millian.  Other names of Webb men are Augustine and James who married Jane Claxton in Botetourt County.  Both Augustine and James moved to Shelby County, Kentucky which is between Frankfort and Louisville rather than the Warren County area according to this e-mail.  These Webbs lived on property near Rockfish Creek in the 1760's in Virginia.

Pinkard

My 3-gr-grandmother on my Hawkins side was Matilda Pinkard.  I know very little about this woman.  And I know even less about her Pinkard family.  The facts that I DO know are:

Matilda married my 3-gr-grandfather, Thomas R. Hawkins 28 Aug 1823 in Culpeper County, Virginia.  I have seen the marriage listed in more than one marriage book for Culpeper County.   Here is what my notes say about this marriage:

I found the following in the Culpeper Co., Virginia Marriage Register:

p. 55, 8-28-1823, Matilda Pinchard(not a typo) m. Thomas R. Hawkins by James Garnett, Sr. (Crooked Run Baptist 1772-1986 located at 38 degrees 21.723' N, 78 degrees 6.441'W, Rapidan, VA, south of Culpeper at junction of Hwys 614 & 615).  You can see historical marker on-line if you google Crooked Run Baptist.

other marriages:

p. 73, 8-30-1799, Spencer Pinckard m. Betsy Marshall by William Mason

p. 49, 10-6-1825, Methethealan Pinckard m. Robert Green by Alonzo Walton

p. 77, 11-19-1800, Polly Pinkard (not a typo) m. Gabriel Rosson by Wm. Masson

information from albypen@gmail.com  Penny Alby who I met via NorthernNeck mail list

 In the census of 1880, her son, Edward Pinkard Hawkins says that his mother was born in Virginia.

Matilda and T.R. had five children.  Only one was a son:  Edward Pinkard from whom I descend.  The other four were daughters:  Ann, Martha Druscilla, Matilda F., and Angelina A.  

 Matilda (wife of T.R.Hawkins) died young.  Her death date is  19 Aug 1836.  I can not find documentation right this minute, but the death date has come from obit or religious newspaper report.

Angelina was only 2 when her mother died and Thomas only 10.  

One interesting piece of information that might suggest that Spencer Pinckard and Betsy Marshall could have been parents of Matilda is the fact that while Matilda does not have a child named Marshall, but she does have a grandson named Jesse Marshall Hawkins.  Jesse Marshall Hawkins is my gr-grandfather.  His first name, Jesse comes from a grandfather on his mother's side.  It is possible that the Marshall might come from his father's side.  

Matilda's only son is named Edward Pinkard Hawkins.  There is another possibility for the name for a father to Matilda.  

I have done very little research on this family.  I do know that it is likely that the Pinkard family moved to Culpeper County from the Northern Neck of Virginia.

One other piece of information:

There are two head of households with Pinkard surname in the Culpeper 1820 Census

Elizabeth

3 young males, 2 males 16-26 and 2 young females, one female between
16 to 26, and Elizabeth must be between 26 and 45.  I suppose she is a
young widow.  But the one that jumped out at me is

Marshall Pinkard

4 young males, 1 10-16, 1 16-18, and one  16-26, 2 young females, 1
16-26 and 1 26-45  Both households have slaves.

Surely naming practices would suggest that this Marshall Pinkard would have been the son of the couple married in 1799 with husband Spencer Pinkard and wife Betsy Marshall.  I can not account for all of the members of the house hold for a man who would have been quite young in 1820.  Too many children for such a young couple.  Still it is hard to ignore the name Marshall Pinkard.  I would point out that Betsy would be a nickname for Elizabeth.

Welsh Quaker naming patterns

Vivian Markley sent me a link to her newest post:

http://quakerig.blogspot.com/2014/07/update-7112014.html

The post had such a great idea in it that I decided to copy the idea here in my own Blog.  Most of us who have been doing research for any amount of time are aware of the naming practices of the Scots who use Mc and the Welsh who use ap as in Thomas ap Thomas or William ap Thomas.....if you aren't familiar read about it on the above blog post.

But the new (to me) idea that Vivian suggests is that some of the random names that we find among our FF matches may have come from Welsh ancestors.  So it is possible that someone with last name Thomas may match someone with last name Evans.....and that the ancestor that they share may have been Welsh.  It is just a matter of what surname they took on these shores where the "ap" naming pattern was not used.

WOW!  This would be a huge project to take on.  But it would be similar to my idea of trying to find some sort of pattern for my matches who had ancestors from Nantucket....or for my matches who had ancestors from the Northern Neck of Virginia.  So

I recently sent the following to my Northern Neck Mail list (Virginia):

I just had a surprising match on my Family Finder.  A man who joined via the Moses surname project that I am co-administrator for came back as a match for me instead of one of the Moses participants.  I am  not Moses by blood.....just married to a Moses male.  That made me start thinking about who I am likely to match in general.  And I thought about one of the blog posts that I wrote a couple of years ago:

http://hawkinsdna.blogspot.com/search?q=autosomal  

My interpretation of a talk that I had heard at the Ohio genealogical society's annual event given by Diahan Southard: 

Her information included the suggestion that a match might be because you share many small segments of DNA.  That would indicate a geographic connection.  With another match you might share large segments of DNA which would indicate that this person is more likely to be related to you with a common ancestor in the much closer time frame.


I started thinking about the various geographical locations that might show up for my own DNA results.  The one that jumps to my mind most quickly is my Nantucket ancestors.....they were so intermarried by the time just before the Revolutionary War that to connect to one family line almost connects one to all of the lines.  But the Northern Neck jumps to my mind secondly.  These people were almost certainly almost that intermarried by the time 1800 came around.....at least the lines that had moved to the area in the 1600's.  They just are not as well documented as my Nantucket ancestors.  

So I started thinking....hmmmmm....are there a series of small segments that would suggest a connection to the Nothern Neck?

 So the question I am thinking on Vivian's information is:  are there a series of small segments that would suggest a connection to the Welsh?

I would love to hear from anyone who has any answers for me on this!

Webb in Bourbon County, KY

One  piece of information came from Ruth Sammons Nassar's book about what she knew about our mutual Webb family:

Lucinda Hensley Sammons told her granddaughter that her Webb family had had a family reunion in Montgomery County, Ky--close to Bowling Green.

(Lucinda Hensley Sammons was the daughter of Bird and Nancy Webb Hensley)

 Anyone who knows Kentucky can look at the statement reported to have been made by Lucinda Hensley and know that Bowling Green is no where near Montgomery County.  I first spent a good deal of time looking in the area around Montgomery County, KY.  

I spent a good bit of time looking in the proximity of Montgomery County and found nothing that made sense except a marriage:   

  Name: Nancy Smith 

  Spouse: William Webb 

  Marriage Date: 11 Sep 1794

information from:  Ancestry 

Marriage Records for Bourbon County, Kentucky 1786-1800

and a land records:

I am looking at the Family Tree Maker CD Land Records: Kentucky 
1774-1924 tonight.

In Bourbon County I find

Richard C. Webb with a large amount of land on Flat Creek  1791
Augustine Webb with a large amount of land on Big Sandy R.  1787
William C. Webb with a large amount of land on Stoners Creek 1797
William Webb with a small amount of land on Stoners Fork  1797

Does anyone know if there is a relationship between these men? 
 

Marsha in WV

The answer:

Yes, they're all related to each other
as father and son/father and son/father
and son/
It goes Wm.W-Wm.C-Augustine-John Vivion-Dr. Wm. C.-Walter Leslie-me 

  Sincerely, Charles Webb Becken

It turned out that further correspondence with this man showed this Webb family was from Orange County, Virginia 

So since I found only dead ends in the area around Montgomery County, KY, I am going to shift my attention to the area close to Bowling Green.  I have other posts that deal with the Webb families in that area on the blog that you can find by typing Webb into the search box in the upper left hand corner.

Jacob Castle

Jacob Castle is an ancestor who holds my imagination!  But he was on the Western Waters of Southwestern Virginia so early that there is not a lot of documented information about him or about his family.  However there is a LOT of folklore.  I will try to add both to this blog post as I have time.

I will start this post with a personal story.  My mother's name is Sara Ann Sammons Hawkins.  When my middle daughter was born,  I had named my first daughter Mary Ann.  I wanted to name this child after my mother.  But I did not want to use the Ann again.  So I named my second daughter Sarah Jane.  I am not sure that my mom loved the fact that I "kind of" named Sarah after her....I liked the old fashioned spelling of Sarah rather than the more modern Sara.

But many years later, I found that I had reverted to the original namesakes.  My mom had been named after her grandmother, Sarah Jane Wooten Sammons.  In turn, Sarah Jane had been named after HER grandmother, Sarah Jane Castle Wooten.  I often tell my daughter that if her son ever has a daughter, he MUST name her Sarah Jane as it will be the 4th time a daughter will have been named Sarah Jane after her grandmother.....well....not exactly....my mom is Sara Ann....but the intent was good.

But it is a good thing that Sarah Jane Castle is remembered in the naming of children even today.  She would be happy.  Because Sarah Jane Wooten Sammons was much loved, I can only guess that Sarah Jane Castle was as well.

OK.  The reason for this post is that today was a top ten gorgeous day.....but I had minor surgery and could not golf.  So I took Mary Kegley's book:  Finding Their Way From the Great Road to the Wilderness Road 1745-1796 to the porch to read.  WOW!  Amazing book!  Mary Kegley's endnotes are so full of information that it is hard to get finished with any one page.

But I wanted to put one piece of information someplace where I would find it again as I read.  In Chapter 3 which is about roads there is information on page 10.

Northern Neck Proprietary vs Northern Neck

I am off my feet for a few days because of the removal of a couple of squamous cell cancers from my lower legs.  That means extra time for my computer because there is no tennis nor golf nor errands and etc.  So I am cleaning out my inbox randomly.  One of the e-mails that I happened on is from back in 2010 from Craig Kilby on the Northern Neck Mail list dated June 27, 2010 with subject line: Northern Neck Proprietary vs. Colonial Land Office.  I am going to erase the e-mail from my inbox and make a blog post with some of his ideas and a bit of research on-line and in some of the books in my library.